tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post3753264720751808490..comments2024-03-26T01:02:03.579-07:00Comments on All Dead Generations: THREAT - The Risk Economy Part IIIUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-80227021903944939872019-12-12T12:34:30.244-08:002019-12-12T12:34:30.244-08:00Thanks! I tried to give examples of how this works...Thanks! I tried to give examples of how this works (and ended up focusing on threat as it's the only part of the exploration triad of timekeeping, supply and threat that exists in 5E RAW) in my review of the first bit of Descent into Avernus. Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-36034235385534919512019-12-12T11:49:38.852-08:002019-12-12T11:49:38.852-08:00This is a great post Gus. Solid analysis. You'...This is a great post Gus. Solid analysis. You're drawing some great connections here. Ben L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04568198881628052274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-52074659598797329262019-11-10T22:55:49.295-08:002019-11-10T22:55:49.295-08:00"although I have no idea how much he lets you..."although I have no idea how much he lets you all peek behind the curtains" A fair bit - Ben doesn't conceal ACs or hit point totals, for example. IIRC, a wandering monster table for the White Jungle was one of the first things I saw on Ben's blog. He's been posting some downtime mechanics lately: http://maziriansgarden.blogspot.com/<br />That being said, engaging with the fiction rather than the mechanics has been a lot more profitable!Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649420272387984400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-22714915930595222392019-11-05T03:53:15.878-08:002019-11-05T03:53:15.878-08:00Agreed on all counts. OD&D sets the table but...Agreed on all counts. OD&D sets the table but falls short of serving dinner---on purpose or accident---and it's actually better that it doesn't because that's where things get interesting (emergent play, etc.). I think a classic pitfall is, as you say, taking the system too far and attempting to make it a simulation. That's a key thing to remember when you get yourself all twisted up trying to "make sense" out of D&D. Still...finding that line of plausibility is the art of DMing.<br /><br />The last thing I experienced as a player in the 70's (with my final, great, DM) that still seems to be absent from most discussions about OD&D is that he almost never revealed mechanism to us. We rarely got to see the dice or know the particulars of the faux-simulation. Magic items were "magical" and unknown in their exact workings. We didn't know hit dice, stats, or abilities of the monsters we faced. He'd filled in the OD&D-blanks and re-invented so much we couldn't just "look it up". It was great and immersive (and a lot of work for the DM...we were mystified as to how he did it). Some folks argue players can't make rational risk vs. reward decision without data to weigh, but I think we do it all the time in real-life, solely bases on situational clues. When I read about you and others playing in Ben L's Wishery campaign, I imagined it might be similar because you don't know what to expect in such an alien environment---although I have no idea how much he lets you all peek behind the curtains.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-80391845135128986892019-11-04T17:44:21.522-08:002019-11-04T17:44:21.522-08:00Where to start - first glad you are liking these p...Where to start - first glad you are liking these posts - they clarify things for me as well writing them.<br /><br />Second, Level Design and spatial puzzles are something I'm rather proud of thinking about, because it really is a distinction that explains to me at least why the specific elements of classic play come together to form a very specific whole that later editions and play styles don't - even when they try to. I think one of the keys to random encounters is that they are random, meaning that they don't require the GM to think about them until they happen, but they also transform the experience of the level depending on what gets met when and how the players handle it. They're an engine for that emergent narrative that folks in the classic games space like to mumble rapturously about and they partially work because they don't require the GM to spend their attention on planning encounters that might never happen. The emergent property is also part of why I like them so varied - it's exciting for me if I don't know how much danger is about to descend on the players or which schemes will just not work. The same thing sort of applies to reaction rolls.<br /><br />Third, Factions - Gygaxian naturalism is it's own thing - it's not a real ecology, just the vague gesture of one. I think part of the trouble that later D&D (specifically AD&D) got into was falling in love with the idea of simulation - and it goes for faction design as well. The point of faction conflict isn't entirely to simulate hierarchies and complexities, but to create spaces that facilitate hijinx and stories. If the goblins and orcs in B2 fight I'm pretty sure the tougher more numerous orcs would win - they might not be able to hold thier own anymore against the rest of the caves ... but that's not really the point. The kobolds surely can't fight the orcs or goblins, yet they haven't been evicted - because the idea of this tightly wound conflict ecosystem makes for better story then simulating one. Also maybe because those kobold caves are super low rent and shoddy - the shanty town of chaos? Also I am really fond of horrible dungeon or setting upsetting events (on clocks or PC triggered, but also just off a random table) that shake up situations even if the PCs try to balance things - 'cause they always do.<br /><br />Finally - I'm not sure it was design that made OD&D work - I suspect there was a huge element of luck and happenstance involved, because the whole dungeoncrawl, risk v. reward adventure thing wasn't really a genre until D&D. Still agreed that it's something people want to emulate now - and I think they can, even in newer systems, if they understand what exatly was going on in the 70's that made D&D do D&D things.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-11240115854474014712019-11-04T11:31:03.384-08:002019-11-04T11:31:03.384-08:00Sorry for the delay in responding---it's been ...Sorry for the delay in responding---it's been a busy week.<br /><br />I should say first and foremost I am very critical of my own DM-skills. I am constantly looking back at events and locations after-the-fact wishing I had been more thorough with the design or run it better.<br /><br />It's also true I've been a bit of a big-mouth recently in a few on-line locales advocating OD&D play since I witnessed first-hand what I thought was a detrimental shift in play-style starting in the 80's---drifting away from a focus on exploring the world toward over-emphasis on PC abilities and catering to players desires. It's out of a desire to "raise the alarm" (so to speak) and warning others on how it can hurt their game---sorry if it comes off as too know-it-all-ish.<br /><br />I still think I can learn a lot about good play by listening to others (e.g. you, Ben, etc.), who seem to have a great perspective on the essence of the hobby.<br /><br />That said, what you made me re-think with respect to level design is to view a level as just being a spacial structure (a container as oppose to a lair) and the need to find a workable way to inject more dynamic movement of the NPC/monsters inside of that space. This is where I tend to fall down as a DM---the triggering of a cascade of events as a result of the PC actions. Since I like to prepare as much as possible (written) before a game, the real-time flow of cause-and-effect often catches me feeling stupid and slow.<br /><br />Your post made me conscious of the fact that many of my dungeons as written are keyed without enough movement and random encounters. I need to go back and inject a bit more.<br /><br />Also, with your earlier post in the series, I now find myself wanting to tighten up a bit of my laissez-faire handling of encumbrance and other resource management aspects of the game and design some scenarios in the campaign that call for some difficult trade-offs.<br /><br />(Sorry this is getting long). <br /><br />Another thought I'd like to bring up is with factions. I designed the central (mega)dungeon in my campaign such that there was a plausible balance-of-power, i.e. an explanation as to why one faction didn't wipe out the other. It made for a very static situation that the PC felt they couldn't (safely) budge. Unsure of how to proceed, as soon as there was an alternate route (out of the dungeon) they took it. Hopefully they will return some day. If there's a question lurking in the preceding statement, it's how to best pen a plausible role for adventurers without railroading?<br /><br />Honestly, these post do clarify things for me. I knew I was playing D&D in the 70's and when I returned to the hobby I knew I wanted to replicate "the good" while avoiding "the bad", but I never knew it was OD&D, and how that was different from 1e/2e and all the rest. We knew we'd gone "off book", but I didn't ever think that's what we were "supposed" to do by design. Thanks for helping me realize it.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-71821107476134130202019-10-31T15:02:08.177-07:002019-10-31T15:02:08.177-07:00Glad you like it. Curious what you are rethinking ...Glad you like it. Curious what you are rethinking given my understanding that you're fairly well versed in classic play?Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1210373310486731809.post-45030634180366702322019-10-31T05:04:15.615-07:002019-10-31T05:04:15.615-07:00I was definitely inspired by this post to re-think...I was definitely inspired by this post to re-think some of my (ahem) level-design. Thanks Gus! Great post.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.com